Comments on: Community in the comments http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/ digital anthropologist Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:40:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Joe http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-470 Joe Sat, 24 May 2008 22:58:53 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-470 I think Youtube set a very bad precedent for web communities. It's probably the most uncivilized forum on the internet, and it's kind of lowered the bar for everyone else. I think community management and content are both responsible for creating the kind of community Flickr. Vimeo, Veoh, Viddler, and most other video sites all have more mature user communities. This might be a function of size, but the fact that rival video survaves usually host user-created videos instead, and therefor have more invested in the site might have something to do with it. Also, we shouldn't underestimate the role demography plays. Sites like Flickr and Facebook cater to more upscale users, whereas sites like Youtube and Myspace attract users that are more low-rent. In a way, Youtube is the biggest trailer park in the universe. I think Youtube set a very bad precedent for web communities. It’s probably the most uncivilized forum on the internet, and it’s kind of lowered the bar for everyone else.

I think community management and content are both responsible for creating the kind of community Flickr. Vimeo, Veoh, Viddler, and most other video sites all have more mature user communities. This might be a function of size, but the fact that rival video survaves usually host user-created videos instead, and therefor have more invested in the site might have something to do with it.

Also, we shouldn’t underestimate the role demography plays. Sites like Flickr and Facebook cater to more upscale users, whereas sites like Youtube and Myspace attract users that are more low-rent. In a way, Youtube is the biggest trailer park in the universe.

]]> By: Eric Susch http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-112 Eric Susch Wed, 07 May 2008 12:00:47 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-112 Not sure I agree with nolandfone (or really understand what he/she is saying.) There have been a lot of well established communities around amateur and professional video. Back in the day when I was growing up Super-8 was popular and I subscribed to magazines like Super-8 filmmaker and Cinemagic. Many of the other comments I agree with but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I think the character of any social community is going to ultimately depend on the nature of the core reason people are getting together in the first place. Photography is a more contemplative art, a freeze frame of life. It encourages people to stop, look, and think. Video is seen as more disposable probably because after you’ve watched it, it’s done. It doesn’t stay there like a photograph. I think this makes it easier to dismiss a video or even the person making it in the comments. I wonder what you and others would think of a social website that has a very, very long standing and established real life community like ravelry.com. Not sure I agree with nolandfone (or really understand what he/she is saying.) There have been a lot of well established communities around amateur and professional video. Back in the day when I was growing up Super-8 was popular and I subscribed to magazines like Super-8 filmmaker and Cinemagic.

Many of the other comments I agree with but there’s one thing that hasn’t been mentioned. I think the character of any social community is going to ultimately depend on the nature of the core reason people are getting together in the first place. Photography is a more contemplative art, a freeze frame of life. It encourages people to stop, look, and think. Video is seen as more disposable probably because after you’ve watched it, it’s done. It doesn’t stay there like a photograph. I think this makes it easier to dismiss a video or even the person making it in the comments.

I wonder what you and others would think of a social website that has a very, very long standing and established real life community like ravelry.com.

]]> By: nolandfone http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-111 nolandfone Tue, 06 May 2008 03:47:24 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-111 The community needs to have pre-existed for the two to complement each other. Let me explain, a long long time ago before Flickr et. el., and even before digital camera (yes I know many of you don't remember that far back!!), there was 35mm film. Photo's where taken, photo magazines where published and a communities met as part of local SIG meeting. Making the leap to digital and then the online world allowed this existing pool (community) of amateur & pro's to express their work and comments in real time. Flickr is made up of these people who then self govern and help manage all things that they "take pride in". I'm not saying that a video of a coke bottle blowing up on YouTube was not created with love, care and is not the pride and joy of the teenage kid who filmed it on his Moto Razor .... Anyway you get the picture (no pun intended). The community needs to have pre-existed for the two to complement each other. Let me explain, a long long time ago before Flickr et. el., and even before digital camera (yes I know many of you don’t remember that far back!!), there was 35mm film. Photo’s where taken, photo magazines where published and a communities met as part of local SIG meeting. Making the leap to digital and then the online world allowed this existing pool (community) of amateur & pro’s to express their work and comments in real time. Flickr is made up of these people who then self govern and help manage all things that they “take pride in”. I’m not saying that a video of a coke bottle blowing up on YouTube was not created with love, care and is not the pride and joy of the teenage kid who filmed it on his Moto Razor …. Anyway you get the picture (no pun intended).

]]> By: Clintus McGintus http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-97 Clintus McGintus Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:35:12 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-97 I totally agree. I hate the comments on YouTube. I totally agree. I hate the comments on YouTube.

]]> By: TWD http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-95 TWD Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:35:05 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-95 Everyone knows that YouTube video comments suck, but what people fail to realize is that this is how viral video's work. To really hit it big with a video on youtube you have to get onto one of their lists one way or another. One way that people do this is by getting into the most commented section. So how do you do this? Make duplicate accounts and spam. Post spam in your own video. Reply to spam comments with spam comments of your own. This is also the reason why you'll see lots of videos with reply videos that have nothing to do with the content of the first. So I would exactly say that it's the management tools. The issue is that the system encourages it. Spam and dumbing down the discussion is the easiest way for people to make their video popular. Everyone knows that YouTube video comments suck, but what people fail to realize is that this is how viral video’s work. To really hit it big with a video on youtube you have to get onto one of their lists one way or another. One way that people do this is by getting into the most commented section. So how do you do this? Make duplicate accounts and spam. Post spam in your own video. Reply to spam comments with spam comments of your own. This is also the reason why you’ll see lots of videos with reply videos that have nothing to do with the content of the first.

So I would exactly say that it’s the management tools. The issue is that the system encourages it. Spam and dumbing down the discussion is the easiest way for people to make their video popular.

]]> By: Allan Hough http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-88 Allan Hough Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:58:38 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-88 After reading this, I got to thinking about community and <a href="http://missionmission.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/mission-mission-introduces-introduce-yourself-page/" rel="nofollow">decided to implement an 'Introduce Yourself'</a> page on my blog. What do you guys think? After reading this, I got to thinking about community and decided to implement an ‘Introduce Yourself’ page on my blog. What do you guys think?

]]> By: spiyCupcakes http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-86 spiyCupcakes Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:01:00 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-86 is it ok to say that StickAm & Flick should be more of a bond? is it ok to say that StickAm & Flick should be more of a bond?

]]> By: robert http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-78 robert Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:27:05 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-78 The combination of better community management tools, and users who have a stake in the service (ie: content stored there or paying for an accuont) is what makes flickr's community so much more appealing than flickr. flickr is a two way street, everyone provides content, everyone provides feedback, whereas youtube is generally much more of a one way service. Sure some people both provide content and feedback on youtube but youtube is generally just a one way medium similar to television. This is one reason why I feel no connection with it. One other thing you didn't cover that I think might make flickr a better service is the integration of tools like picnik's image editing tools and the ability to add notes to photos and various other tools to customize your content. flickr seems much more proactive in supplying its users with tools, whereas youtube I would figure is much busier fending off lawsuits. On another note I really like the theme you chose for your blog. The combination of better community management tools, and users who have a stake in the service (ie: content stored there or paying for an accuont) is what makes flickr’s community so much more appealing than flickr.

flickr is a two way street, everyone provides content, everyone provides feedback, whereas youtube is generally much more of a one way service.

Sure some people both provide content and feedback on youtube but youtube is generally just a one way medium similar to television. This is one reason why I feel no connection with it.

One other thing you didn’t cover that I think might make flickr a better service is the integration of tools like picnik’s image editing tools and the ability to add notes to photos and various other tools to customize your content. flickr seems much more proactive in supplying its users with tools, whereas youtube I would figure is much busier fending off lawsuits.

On another note I really like the theme you chose for your blog.

]]> By: Erik R. http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-77 Erik R. Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:09:05 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-77 I agree with everything Ruobé just said. The whole “borrowed” content that youtube has, people are more rude. That is one of the reasons why I put my original videos at Vimeo, better community, less trash talk, etc. More smiles all around. I agree with everything Ruobé just said. The whole “borrowed” content that youtube has, people are more rude. That is one of the reasons why I put my original videos at Vimeo, better community, less trash talk, etc. More smiles all around.

]]> By: Ruobé http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-76 Ruobé Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:08:54 +0000 http://arielwaldman.com/2008/04/21/community-in-the-comments/#comment-76 I think the main difference between YouTube and Flickr is that YouTube features mainly "borrowed" content such as excerpts from TV whereas Flickr has original content, whether artworks or personnal stuff. As a result, people are more demanding and rude for professional videos that someone unknown has shared than they would be when talking directly to the creator of a beautiful or informative picture. In this respect, Flickr would be closer to Vimeo than YouTube. I don't know for the community management problem, since I don't contribute to any of those sites, but I'm pretty sure that it can't be unrelated to the nature of their content. I mean, you were only speaking of the comment-side of the community, rather than including the contributor-side of it. Sure, it's all about community, otherwise. Well, now, I will wonder if it's a good idea to comment on a blog post about dull comments :) I think the main difference between YouTube and Flickr is that YouTube features mainly “borrowed” content such as excerpts from TV whereas Flickr has original content, whether artworks or personnal stuff.

As a result, people are more demanding and rude for professional videos that someone unknown has shared than they would be when talking directly to the creator of a beautiful or informative picture. In this respect, Flickr would be closer to Vimeo than YouTube.

I don’t know for the community management problem, since I don’t contribute to any of those sites, but I’m pretty sure that it can’t be unrelated to the nature of their content. I mean, you were only speaking of the comment-side of the community, rather than including the contributor-side of it. Sure, it’s all about community, otherwise.

Well, now, I will wonder if it’s a good idea to comment on a blog post about dull comments :)

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